In The East Wing

Abdullah Najjar 0:00
Alright, so this is my conversation with Ambassador Gentry Smith. Ambassador Smith held a variety of posts within diplomatic security, including postings in Cairo Tokyo and Rangoon. He was a former director of the Office of Foreign Missions from 2014 to 2017 he was also a special agent within Diplomatic Security and a police officer way back in the day. Most importantly, Ambassador Smith graduated from North Carolina State University, which is something that him and I have in common our education at NC State. So without further ado, here's our conversation together. I do want to start off, Ambassador Smith with a little bit about your days at NC State. And this is one thing you and I have in common. This is this podcast is is recorded at NC State, and we also have a very I guess we're keen on bringing back some of those voices, the NC State voices, back to our campus, and, you know, engage with them in different capacities here at the radio Station, and perhaps before we even start and highlighting the career path that you've chosen that recently culminated in becoming the assistant secretary of Diplomatic Security. I figured we could perhaps talk a little bit about your days at NC State in terms of moments that you probably would never forget, and perhaps things that you know about the school that make you, I guess, proud of being part of the alumni network of NC State.

Gentry Smith 1:55
Yeah, well, I, you know, as I've spoken on other occasions, when I when I'm talking about my experiences with the university, I give a lot of credit to the university by stating that had I not had the background that I feel that I was provided during my time at the university, I you know my, You know my, my professional experiences would have probably been very different. I felt that the university prepared me very well, pretty much everything that I've encountered since then. You know, I came to university, as I'm sure many do, with more of a stem interests, I came to major in engineering and graduated in political science. And that, in itself, is its own journey, and I'm glad that I did discover the world of Political Science during my time of study at NC State. But it's kind of interesting that I feel that the early technical studies that that I was involved in, pursuing engineering married up very well with definitely the liberal arts and political science background that and which I in the field, in which I graduated, I I'm one of the fortunate ones that that I feel comfortable in in both working in both areas and just having discussions and engaging with individuals with who have varying backgrounds I like what's being done right now, particularly at the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, where where there is an understanding that even if you are there and engaged in stem the ability to capability to communicate and to express ideas, and the blending of the two is going to be something that's going to be very relevant. I feel moving ahead, particularly given the current environment

Abdullah Najjar 4:15
master Smith, given my sort of connection to the field of political science, because I'm, you know, an international studies major I take, I actually appreciate the fact that there is this emphasis on the idea that a student in that program is typically expected to learn a different language. And given your experience abroad, which we will explore fair bit later in our conversation together. I'm sure you would have come to realize that you know learning in another language is quite important, especially if you're if your field of if your career is put. Pushing you toward traveling or being exposed to different cultures. And so I wonder if during your time at the University, if you ever felt the desire to learn another language, or if you actually did learn a different language, and how that that journey was like for you, or the experience, how did it manifest post graduation?

Gentry Smith 5:21
Yeah, I feel that if you have international interests and, and, well, even broader than that, the world in which you're living in now is a good it's a global world, and and you are, you're going to benefit from having that exposure, that experience, to multiple cultures. Definitely, if you have an interest in doing the things that I have done, that is of great benefit to you during my time at NC State. Yes, I did study Spanish. I think it was probably one of three languages. I think that was probably popular during that time, with Spanish, French and German being pretty much the major three languages at that time. I know that that is much broader now, and just in some of my conversations with, you know, persons involved in the language schools of language. You know, there I very much support having that exposure, learning a different language, and learning about multiple cultures, because it just makes you again a more rounded individual, well rounded individual, and one who's much more prepared, I think, to engage with individuals whose experiences may be very different from you, and having the capability to communicate is, of course, always a given. It's a plus. I've had the benefit during my career of also learning additional languages. And so I did. I picked up. Didn't pick up. I studied Arabic for during my times of being state, you know, station slash, posted, you know, in the world and and I attempted to learn Japanese and even Burmese during my times and in Asia. So I think the Yes, I'm a strong proponent of learning languages and and having that exposure, even if you don't achieve great proficiency.

Abdullah Najjar 7:41
I admire that Vassar Smith. I really do. I truly, I certainly see the value of learning another language. And if I had the opportunity during my time here, I mean, I came in with, you know, another language under my belt, but if I really had more time, I would have certainly learned a different language here while students at NC State, and I think especially people who are interested in, I guess, in field diplomacy, or even serving their country and being deployed abroad in different capacities, I think, like you said, it's rather important, and that sort of brings me to, I guess, another question that I would love to maybe explore with you here you've engaged in serving a country in different ways. I think after graduating from NC State, you became a police officer and correct, yeah, and then there was a transition where you worked with the Diplomatic Security as a special agent. And I'm wondering here about this transition that you have went through post graduation. And then the other transition from being a police officer to a special agent. How would you describe these, you know, different, I guess, for potentially career paths? I don't know if they would be that different, but maybe you can maybe tell us a little bit more about that.

Gentry Smith 9:15
Yeah, I, you know, from my time there, I had a strong interest in national security and international affairs issues and and honestly, coming out of the NC State, the roller police department was hiring at that time and and after many years of Study and a family, I figured I'd better get into something that was going to pay some money. And the city of Raleigh was actually paying very well for its police officers, and given my political science background, I could see at least some correlation. There, and I also had a couple of courses in criminal law during my during my time there, so I applied with the police department, and actually, after being hired on and doing it for a few years, actually began to enjoy the work, having having an opportunity in law enforcement. Number one, being a black American, I had the chance to represent within my community and let members of my community see someone who looked like them and someone who could interact with them. And as stated, from even from a cultural situation, having understanding and having a much more easy interaction than others, and so began to build on that and work within the community, at the same time serving that community. But along the way, understood where you know, my great interest were, where that was and and so I never lost that interest in what was happening in the world. And so after a few years on the department, I ran into a friend of mine who was actually working at the State Department, and they told me about a new organization that was being formed at that time at the State Department, the Diplomatic Security Service, which had, which was an outgrowth of the Beirut bombings in the early 80s, from our Embassy in Beirut and and in a couple of other than A few other locations around the world where our diplomats and our diplomatic facilities were being targeted, along with, you know, targets on US foreign policy present. And so as a result of that, the State Department created the diplomatic Diplomatic Security Service, and were it was in the process of building the organization at that time and hiring individuals whom they thought had the professional backgrounds to serve. You know, in that capacity, when my friend told me about the job, he actually said, Hey, I've got just the thing for you, because you know you're my interest and you're my background. And actually the two blended perfectly. This was a opportunity to have a law enforcement experience and at the same time broaden that on a global on a global scale. And so it was a marriage meant to be. I applied for the position and to join the organization, and was one of the few that was selected to to to begin this career.

Abdullah Najjar 12:58
Gosh, that's a very interesting, sort of, you know, career, little bit of a career shift, maybe not very but, I mean, it requires a little bit of travel, so I would consider it a huge I'm wondering here if there was, if you had any expectations, Ambassador Smith, about the, I guess, the reality that you're going to be thrust into, I reckon maybe there has been some sort of training, right? You know that you have to maybe meet certain standards. There's a criteria, and I'm sure one's, you know, training can be intense, but maybe there's a certain level of reality checks that you had to endure. Even post the training, you're like, Okay, this is interesting, you know. So what was, what was that like, the sort of preparation process?

Gentry Smith 13:57
Well, I will say that coming in with the law enforcement background gave me a leg up for for the type of work that that they were, that the department was looking for. And also, I think coming into at the time that it was at its inception, was was also something good to experience. I'm very clear to persons who are interested in doing this, that we want you to come as you are, and we will mold you and shape you into being the type of individual who can be successful at what we do and and that's that's proven true. We will, we will recruit from a diverse, back, you know, cadre of individuals. We, you know, we, while probably 50% of the persons who. Would have interests, and this will either come with a law enforcement or military background that still leaves 50% from everywhere, yeah, retail, teachers, lots of persons who've been involved with NGOs before, and persons who have zero exposure experience to that, maybe from the arts, but have traveled abroad or have an interest in and as I stated, being involved and experiencing various cultures. So yeah, we say Come as you are and, and that was true for me as well. Come and, and you will be shaped into being a a good Special Agent with the Diplomatic Security Service. The training we in, the initial training, is the same for anyone that's involved in federal law enforcement with the US government, we go down go to one of the Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers for us, it was Glencoe Georgia, and you go down there for the basic Special Agent training course that all persons involved in federal law enforcement go through. Add to completion of that, then the Diplomatic Security Service had its own separate training to to give you exposure to what the State Department is. You know, what is it that persons within the Foreign Service? What do they do? What will be your role as a special agent with the Diplomatic Security Service, protecting its personnel, protecting its facilities, protecting national security information, being a very comfortable liaising with law enforcement from other countries As you're assigned abroad, and ensuring that you can interact with them, both on law enforcement investigative matters, but also on managing the security program, which you will have responsibility for at the embassy or consulate that you're assigned to for protecting us citizens who visit there, the US employees and local employees who will work at that embassy or consulate, and then your special relationship with us, businesses, educational institutions, NGOs, that operate within that country, that but maybe have will have a nexus to the United States, and you you know that you're going to be the principal point of contact for that entity. You're also working with a lot of other federal agencies and institutions that are having representation at that Ms or at that consulate, and so learning what they're about to and learning what your role, how your role is interrelated with what is going on there that is within their area of responsibility, and where there may be overlap, because of some of the things that you both have an interest in, Making sure that they move ahead positively. That's

Abdullah Najjar 18:20
a that's a very, I guess, extensive phase of training, you know, because they're trying to prepare you for the real world, and that can be quite intense.

Gentry Smith 18:33
Yeah, that's true. And I think that is done, you know, in sections. You know, first, when you're first coming on, you don't, you know, there's, there's getting the basic skills that you will need to be successful doing that. And then as you progress professionally, you return for additional training to help to build on those skills. And so I think that the gradations of training as you move along professionally well laid out, and so you don't have to take it all in at the very beginning, but you taking quite a bit at the beginning, because it's, it's, I think it's important to know what you will be doing, and you need, you will need To make that decision rather early on in your career. If this is something that you want to take a full bite of that apple or just get introduced to it, but understand that you know your time would be better spent somewhere else. Yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 19:37
let me ask you this. Ambassador Smith, have you had travel experience before, uh, embarking on your journey as a no, no,

Gentry Smith 19:48
it's I love, I love good asset question, I had never been on a plane. Oh, my God. Until, until, uh. I was hired with the US Department of State. My first flight was actually flying from Raleigh up in Washington, DC to start my training. Oh, my

Abdullah Najjar 20:08
goodness, that must have been a very intimate, special moment,

Gentry Smith 20:13
you know, because it's funny, since that time, I'm really off of one. But yeah, I knew that I that I wanted to see the world I was I was very comfortable knowing that I would have to operate in different environments, and that was something that had always been a point of curiosity with me. So when offered the opportunity, there was something I jumped at, and I got that opportunity very early on in my career, shortly after completing training. Gosh,

Abdullah Najjar 20:46
so just sort of understand that fully, there was no travel experience, but maybe there has been interactions with foreigners before or or not really.

Gentry Smith 21:01
Well, yeah, you did at NC State. Of course, you again, you're in a multi multicultural environment, yeah, and so I had that exposure to many students on campus who were from other countries and actually had built quick friendships with some of them anyway, and because, and one of the other things was, you know, during my first two years there was also an Air Force ROTC, so I, you know, I had that expectation of traveling abroad anyway. And so that was one of the pieces of points of interest with me, yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 21:44
well, Master Smith, I'd be interested to know about the first, I guess, flight outside of the United States. Because, I mean, I remember my first flight ever, was when I was, you know, a little young, a little kid going to Turkey with my family, but it was certainly different than my first flight abroad on my own to Lebanon, because that was when I was 17, and I was studying abroad, living on my own. But that was just an entirely different ball game, because, you know, it's just no support system. You got to find your own people. You got to do this and that, and, you know, just but so it's a special, different, different sort of ball game, and I'd be interested to hear about your experience, like the first ever travel experience abroad as a special agent. What was that like?

Gentry Smith 22:36
Yeah. So I completed my training in December of well, I guess it was actually like January, maybe late January, early February of 84 and and I was assigned to the Washington Field Office as a special Agent doing honestly background investigations and VIP protection. And having a having a police background, I was bored very quickly with with the work that I was assigned to. And so by that April, actually, they asked for some ask for four volunteers to go to Cairo, Egypt to do a temporary assignment at the Embassy in Cairo, because the security environment there had increased. There had been an attack on, actually on some dip on members of Diplomatic Security personnel who was serving there at that time. So they wanted to augment coverage in the office, and at the same time upgrade the coverage on the US ambassador on his security details. So they asked for volunteers to go over for the temporary assignment and and I think before they finished asking, my hand was up, oh, yes, get me out of here. Give someone else these background investigations. But anyway, yeah, so off I went that April for my guys, you said, my first international trip into Cairo at a time when the situation there was pretty dicey, actually, and that was my exposure to working with members of the Egyptian law enforcement who were also assigned for security at the embassy there, and working with the security apparatus that was in place at the Embassy in Cairo and then also been exposed to the Marine security guards and other individuals. Who at the Embassy had a role in counter terrorism on law enforcement matters. So getting on the plane, landing in Cairo to where I stepped off the plane, and there are security personnel at the airport with, you know, semi automatic machine guns and just a a different level of exposure that i No one had had experienced at that time. And it was like, Yeah, you're not in Kansas or in Raleigh anymore, quickly, sucked. So yeah, get out of the airport. Hop into an armored, bulletproof suburban, go to the embassy, get your issue all of your security equipment that will be with you for the remainder of the time that you're on your mission there to meet with the Varian personnel and professionals who this is their life, and learning all of that very quickly on the job, and at the same time, understand that you're a diplomat and you're operating in a foreign country, but you have a very specific mission that will require the skills that you've been trained on, plus some excellent interpersonal skills in order to be successful at what you do. So from a period of April until August, that was my assignment every day, along with my other three colleagues whom I travel with, and also working with a security detail of Egyptian law enforcement who also had that responsibility, and the local investigators and security personnel that were hired directly by the security office at the embassy. So again, an entire security program in which you become incorporated into and you learn very quickly, a phenomenal experience for myself, for me, and, of course, an eye opening experience, exposure to the world that I was going to be working in from that point moving forward, and something that it registered with me and resonated with me, and I must have done a pretty good job, because at the end of the assignment in August, the ambassador asked me whether or not I would like to stay on and do a full two year tour working in the security office there. And I was like, Yeah, where do I sign? Well, first of all, I need to go back. I need to grab my family and having this conversation. And he was, you know, he was all about, yeah, if you want it, I'll give you a letter, and you can take this to your assistant secretary, and we'll, we'll just take it from there. And that was the beginning of my overseas career, and I've never looked back sense that's

Abdullah Najjar 28:21
just incredible. I mean, I'm sure your family was also pretty, you know, beyond dismayed by that. You know, big news.

Gentry Smith 28:31
You know, it's kind of interesting. My wife, who was also an NC State graduate, and I think at that time, we had two very young kids, yeah, neither one was, I think the oldest may have been six, so they may have been like, six and four at that time. And, and it's kind of like, Hey, we're going to go and live in a new in another country. It's going to be Egypt. And you're like, Okay, let's do it. Hey kids, you're off to Egypt. And, yeah, yeah. So it all worked out. Wow.

Abdullah Najjar 29:06
What would you say the one of the most? I'm sure there are so many things that stand out about, you know, your time in Egypt, but what would you say was something cultural that maybe you weren't perhaps prepared for before you went there, or did you have maybe things already sort of figured out, you know, what's you know, what to do, what not to do, sort of thing

Gentry Smith 29:36
I did not expect. The openness, the ease of operating in a foreign environment that we actually experienced honestly. You know, we've we've been told. We've been told several things. One. And if you move into an Arab culture, and you move there with kids, you know, agriculture loves baby. They love young kids. And so here was this young couple coming with these brand new kids. And, yeah, and we, although we live on and on a housing compound owned by the embassy. It was right in the community. And so the day that my wife went out of the house with those two babies, and they were like, just absorbed on the street, you know, oh, look at the babies and and it was like she was never home again for like, two years. So the the warmth and welcoming of the community was was something I don't think that we were prepared for, but actually was turned out to be a very, a very positive experience, which I mean, considering what I was there for and the threat level that we all were operating under could have been a very different experience. You know, it could have been one of those experiences where, you know, you just go there. We're going to lock ourselves in the house for two years. We're not going to engage, you know, we just got to be here. I've got this really important job to do, and and let's just get through it, and we pretty much took the opposite approach. Yes, I still had all of those requirements. The work was quite demanding, but I was working with such a professional group of individuals to where my work life and my home life could actually be different and and so, you know, I credit that to probably happen, you know, that's, that's one of the things that kept us there. That's one of the reasons that that we stayed, and that I stayed in this profession, was that we saw that that was duplicated in other areas in which we served in around the world. Yeah, now, of course, during that time frame was also the first Gulf War. That was desert that was Desert Shield, that was Desert Storm, that was Norman swarf coming into country several times. You know, Egypt was a strong partner in that and and several congressional delegations with both Republicans, Democrats, congressmen and senators and other, you know, perfect law. You know, military DoD professionals who had a steady stream of movement in and out of Egypt as things progressed during during that time. So the level of interaction that was required, definitely, the level of work on my part, was unending, but it was, it was a very positive experience as well.

Abdullah Najjar 33:02
Yeah, this is very interesting, I guess, timeline or time period in which you were operating, because I would imagine also at the time people the dissemination of information was probably not unlike today, right? I mean, back then, it would have been, you know, very few outlets where you can get your information from, very few places, you know, where perhaps, yeah, it's pretty

Gentry Smith 33:31
interesting that you bring that up Abdullah, because that was probably CNN introduction to the Middle East. Yeah, Ted Turner came over during that time, and I met with the Egyptian Government in order, I think, to be able to give the CNN feed, you know, into Egypt. Yes, there was early on commercials about CNN was posting with box, and all the time I was listening to the CNN. And, yeah, so we would, you know, we would dare for again, for the genesis of that. And, and, you're right, you're right. That was probably the principal news source during that time. So again, with the beginning of definitely a Desert Storm. You got to see it well, not real time, but pretty close. You know, as soon as footage was being released from DOD. It was being played on on TV over there. And, and, yeah, so yeah, we were definitely tuned into CNN and, and you're right, it was the ushering in of, definitely a new, a new age for for information during that time.

Abdullah Najjar 34:58
Oh, my goodness. And. A that's a very reality that I could only dream of. You know now we have social media and all these things. It's very like access the information is just very instant, I reckon, more instant than perhaps how it was,

Gentry Smith 35:15
yeah, there was, there was no, there was no email at that point. And reporting wise? Yeah, our reporting was done through cables and through phone calls, you know, secure phone calls back to to the department and

Abdullah Najjar 35:31
how, since we're talking about communication here, what was your I don't know that's something we can talk about, but the main method of communication that you use throughout your time there in Egypt. How did you guys exchange signals or exchange information? What would you guys use on a daily basis?

Gentry Smith 35:56
What daily we got our messages back to the State Department, the cable that was the tele telegraph cable was the major reporting form for the government abroad. And we, yeah, and and then, of course, telephone would be the second, second way, but for a detailed report on on your activities and what was what was done? It was the via cable,

Abdullah Najjar 36:34
yeah, and was there ever a sort of level of maybe worry by your family, given the climate that you're operating in, and is a very intense climate.

Gentry Smith 36:50
Oh man, my mother, my mother. You know when I, when I took the job? You know

when I, when my mom first you know, first of all, you know the police officer. She's like, Oh my God, what are you doing? And then I was like, Oh no, no, going to something a lot safe. I'm going to work for the, you know, for the government. I'm going to be a diplomatic security Special Agent. And then, like, right before I get to go to Cairo, was the attack on, I said, on a couple of Diplomatic Security officers who were posted in Cairo, which is on the evening news. And she said, Hey, isn't this the group that you're going to work? I was like, Yeah, mom, but see, but that expert training that they had, they all survived. And she was like, Yeah, okay. And and then we off. We go to Egypt with her, I think, grabbing at our ankles all the way to when we were boarding the plane. And so we would, we would call as frequently as possible. We would send mail as frequently as possible to just let them know. Hey, here's some more photos. We're still alive. We're having a ball here and and never telling, you know, the horror stories, yeah, and only giving good news. Of course, there was concern. Fortunately, we got to come home for a visit after the first year, and the kids who were having a ball and were excited about being in the new school that they were in, and that was all of their talks. So she rested a little better saying that the kids were having a good time. That's her she was and we, of course, we brought, like, really nice gifts, but she was never thoroughly convinced. So, yeah, so it's a very thin line there. So

Abdullah Najjar 38:48
was it a relief for for her and your family, broadly speaking, to actually transition from maybe being in the field to managing things from the State Department? Was that? Did that create a level of relief or not really?

Gentry Smith 39:07
We as a as a family, I think we really enjoyed our time abroad, living, living and experiencing and having that exposure to different cultures. So from Cairo, we came back to the States. We were in the States for five years. I had two assignments back domestic, and then we went back overseas to Burma, and we were over there for three years period. And then from Burma, we went back to Cairo, wow, for a four year, four year term at that time and another Gulf War, goodness and both and by this time, we had three kids with us by the two older boys who had started their school in Cairo actually graduated from high school there. Yeah, and went off to college, and then we went from there to Tokyo with my daughter, who graduated in Tokyo. And at the Tokyo the department had found me and said, Yeah, you're coming home. And I was like, no, no, no, I think my time is better spent abroad. Pretty good at this. And they're like, well, we only have one assignment for you, and that's Baghdad. And I was like, Okay, where is it in DC, exactly. So, yeah, so, and by the time I had been promoted to the senior forum service. And so, yeah, coming back to Washington, which I never got another assignment abroad after that. And I guess the timing was, was appropriate as well. And because I moved into this positions of senior leadership, there was plenty going on back here that you needed persons who had lots of experience and the and then, of course, the the the credentials to back it up for interaction back here in the department and with other US, government agencies, who also had responsibilities abroad. So we became the core group for, I guess, providing guidance and direction and formulating policy for for activities as it related to foreign affairs, and specifically for me, as it related to securing our personnel in our facilities and our information during a time when there were new and increasing challenges.

Abdullah Najjar 41:47
Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that you would get perhaps too consumed in that work, that you might not even miss the sort of exposure to another assignment. Or were there bursts every now and again, you think, Oh, I mean, maybe if I were to go, you know,

Gentry Smith 42:07
fortunately, because of the responsibilities that I had, it still required me to get on a plane every now and again to to go out and either interface with again, with our host country, personnel in the countries in which, you know, we had operations going on or to or to interface with personnel who were working at the embassies and consulates at those locations for specific projects that we had underway.

Abdullah Najjar 42:40
Yeah, so there was still perhaps a fair bit of travel and a level of maybe exposure where you can feel, you know, some of that, you know, I guess earlier sensations of travel abroad,

Gentry Smith 42:54
true, true for much, much shorter periods of time, and honestly, probably being able to get quite a bit more accomplished as well. I would probably, I was probably on the road about every other mile. Oh, wow. So maybe about, you know, five to six times per year I was taking a trip abroad or returning to a location, you know, during that time, I came back in 2007 so a rock was was very active during that time, and we were opening up a Massive, 104 acre embassy compound there that, you know was something that that had been built during wartime, and in a way that you know that we had never been done before, and to do that successfully, and to know that it was a secure facility on the day that The ribbon was cut was something that required tremendous attention, but I feel we were very successful doing that. And at the same time, our relation with the new Iraqi leadership that was coming to power, there was just a lot of support that was necessary during that time as well. There were things and our relationship on the government side, the US Department, the Department of State, DOD relationship had morphed in a way and been open and exposed in a way that it that had never been done with that amount of intensity or so broadly before and also with intelligence community, because it was, it was very much one team, one fight. So there was just a lot of amalgamation that was required and collaboration that was required. And it did require persons with the EXP. Exposure, slash experience that could, you know, maneuver through that successfully, and then right on the hills of that was Afghanistan, right so, yeah. So that's going to be your next decade of work between those, just those two locations, right there. Yeah,

Abdullah Najjar 45:18
when you look back Ambassador Smith, at some of the work that you've done, where would you say you may have made a mistake, and you know, you sort of learned a lot from that, maybe perhaps mistake or failure. Like, was there a story that you can share with us? You know, before we sort of get closer to our conversation,

Gentry Smith 45:41
I would say, one of the things that that that I learned, one of the lessons that I learned, and I was and the way in which I learned, it was probably the gentlest way that it could be learned, and That is understanding that you never and I've heard others are on your on your podcast, speakers, you never have full information. And so a lot of times, the more sources, the more collaboration you can do to get better information is helpful, because when you think you know it all and you don't, that's a mistake that could cost lives. And yeah, and there were, we had, you know, one situation during my second tour in Cairo where actually it was a view, it was a vehicular accident. And we have persons who were, you know, pretty severely injured during the accident. And there were resources that were actually near the accident site, but did not belong to me, yeah, belong to other entities within the embassy, and some from the host government and from protecting information, protecting personnel, I narrowed the resources that were utilized for, you know, for that and, and it was, You know, it was time sensitive. Fortunately, the people survived. But had I taken full use of all the resources that were there for me and the knowledge from others, instead of stovepiping the result it would have, we would have saved time and and the outcome that that was successful, in the end, would have been done more quickly and a lot less pain than than others had to endure. And so from that, you know, I, my, my great takeaway was when you when you do have people less sincere about being helpful, and they have resources that are that will be to your to your benefit, it's best to take advantage of those.

Abdullah Najjar 48:14
Master Smith, I really appreciate your time and the conversation we had. I truly enjoyed this, and I look forward to perhaps meeting with you sometime again in person for whether it be here or in DC or somewhere else, perhaps abroad. But thank you for your time.

Gentry Smith 48:33
It's been, it's been a pleasure. Abdullah, thank you very much for having me on. This is an awesome, awesome podcast, and I'm happy to be a part of it, and of course, go back. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai